June 20, 2023
Q&A on potential new church campus
The following questions were posed during the walkthroughs, and they are answered by content from meetings and discussions between the elders: Ryan, Mark, Evan & Phil; Seedlings Director, Taylor; and Treasurer, Isaac. We appreciate receiving these questions, and we are thankful they were asked. There will be opportunities for more church-wide discussion.
Vision
Q: Why consider this now?
A: The space issues in our current campus are a challenge on some Sundays, and it’s going to become a bigger challenge. This fall, about ten children from Seedlings will enter the student ministry and will be sitting in auditorium seats. Meanwhile, there are eight babies soon to join the Seedlings ministry. The following fall, another significant number of Seedlings will move up. As young ones grow, they also take up more room physically.
We are also growing as a church. The Lord, in His providence, is sending people who feel called to our local church. We see the strategic value of adding another pastor, but that would require additional growth to sustain that financial decision. Our current campus will not work without going to multiple services, requiring additional volunteers and organizational complexity. The church would need to function as two separate congregations.
If God were to bring growth to those separate services, the space issues would return, and replication of additional services would be required. Multiple services is ultimately not a long-term solution, but only a temporary measure. This potential new church campus was brought to our doorstep, in the midst of prayer about the future of the church. This is why we are seriously considering it.
Q: Are we still going to hire another pastor?
A: This decision on a potential new church campus is not a replacement for a pastor. The reality is: We ultimately need both. The issue is the order of operations. Hiring a new pastor requires a solution to our space challenges. At the same time, moving to a bigger church campus will require more help. One of these decisions needs to be made before the other.
Building / Renovations
Q: Are there mold problems, lead paint problems, or asbestos problems with the building?
A: We would clean, repair, and maintain the areas of the building that will be initially used. No mold problems have been discovered, but if found, would be addressed. Lead paint was banned in the U.S. in 1978. The children’s area and the main floor have been renovated / painted since then. Asbestos is not a problem, as long as it’s not stirred up and released into the air. For example, asbestos floor tiles can be covered without being removed.
Q: Would new construction in the small unfinished space on the 3rd floor require emergency sprinklers?
A: Highly unlikely, as it wouldn’t be truly new construction, but finishing out a preexisting space.
Q: Can we switch between the chiller system and boiler system easily, or is it a complicated switch that can only be done once a season?
A: The boiler system (for heating) is only nine years old. The chiller system (for cooling) is much older. We have had multiple inspections of the system. Some building systems are designed so that only the boiler or chiller can be running. This system is designed so that both the boiler and chiller could run simultaneously, but usually only one system is used at a time for cost efficiency.
Q: Is there a place where we could build a playground for children?
A: There is a 4,500 square foot grassy lot on the northwest corner of the property. A playground could be built there and fenced in. This outdoor space is large enough to also function as an outdoor community space for the church.
Q: Would there be bathrooms added on the 3rd floor?
A: Future renovations could certainly include bathroom additions on the 3rd floor. However, the bathrooms on the main auditorium level are large enough for the building. The bathrooms on the bottom floor would be exclusively used for Seedlings ministry during Sunday service.
Q: Do we have to spend money on changing the auditorium chairs now since they are functional and there are other projects to address? Can we use the current chairs for a while and make that change later? Can we just reupholster them?
A: The auditorium chairs do not need to be changed now. That budget money can certainly be moved elsewhere. The vision behind new chairs was to give the auditorium a refresh, but it’s not an essential. We don’t know the cost of reupholstering each chair, as well as fixing some of the damaged chairs. Our assumption is that replacing them with stackable auditorium chairs would be less expensive.
Q: Have the air ducts been cleaned recently?
A: We do not know, but can look into it.
Q: Will we have the building inspected by a professional?
A: Some professionals we invited in have given us helpful information on the roof, boiler / chiller system, the elevator, and the structural soundness of the building. We have not discovered any red flags.
Q: Are we leaving the stage walls black?
A: There has been some conversation about painting the walls on either side of the stage a lighter color to bring more light into the auditorium. No firm plans currently.
Q: Are we going to address the wood rot on the kitchen door?
A: We will evaluate all doors from an emergency response / security standpoint.
Q: What is going on with the peeling paint in the downstairs bathrooms?
A: We have been told that these single, isolated spots of water damage in each bathroom have been there for years, and that they haven’t worsened over time. These bathrooms are original to the building. They sit under the grand entrance exterior stairs on the east side of the building. The water damage is probably from past leaking through cracks in the exterior stairs. We would repair these areas and aim to ensure no further leaks.
Q: Is there some water damage in the hallway that leads to the east entrance, on the northeast side of the auditorium?
A: There is some past water damage in that hallway. This is the northeast corner of the original building. Everything to the north of that hallway is the newer addition. The roof report showed that the roof still has life in it and is sound, but we will likely look to seal the flat parts of the roof over the original building to increase its longevity.
Q: What is the plan for baptisms?
A: We would likely set up the baptismal on the stage, toward the right or left side. There is plenty of room for it.
Accessibility
Q: Is the building handicap accessible and up to ADA codes?
A: Like our current church campus, this potential new church campus is not fully handicap accessible or up to ADA codes, as it is grandfathered in on older codes. In our current campus, the auditorium is ADA accessible, but the basement and bathrooms are not. In this potential new campus, neither the auditorium nor the bathrooms are ADA accessible, but there is an elevator that needs a few changes to be up to code. The elevator is in working condition and was inspected as recently as 2021.
We have talked with an elevator codes expert, and the elevator needs some updating to meet code, but we gathered that we could likely use the elevator while working to meet these codes over time. This would make this potential new church campus more ADA accessible.
Parking
Q: Wasn’t the parking lot full at the Sunday walkthrough? Is there enough parking?
A: The parking area to the north was largely full, but there are many more spaces to the west of the building. There are also a few spaces to the south. There are about 65 parking spaces on the campus. Additionally, the immediately surrounding businesses (like Margaritas) that aren’t open on Sundays provide plenty of additional parking.
Emergency Response / Security
Q: How would we manage all the entries and exits in the building?
A: The north entrance would be utilized as the main entrance. The grand entrance to the east will remain locked, but will be manned and could be used to enter the building. All other exterior doors would remain locked during Sunday service. In the children’s area, doors that don’t need to be opened from both sides would be adjusted to only open one way, for security and building-flow purposes. We’re looking into adding additional doors within the building to clarify and direct foot traffic.
Q: How do demographic and crime statistics compare between our current church campus and this potential new church campus?
A: The 3-mile radius around our current church campus includes a population of 75,000 people with a median household income of $47,000. 1,139 of those households are receiving some form of public assistance.
The 3-mile radius around the potential new church campus includes a population of 104,000 people with a median household income of $45,000. 1,714 of those households are receiving some form of public assistance. The family and racial demographics in these two areas are almost identical.
When our church purchased our current campus, there were many who expressed concerns about the age and location of the neighborhood. There were concerns about gang violence, drug houses, abandoned buildings, the speed of cars on 18th Street, and that the building was tucked back in a neighborhood, away from a highly visible road, in which robbery, assault, or other crimes could be more easily committed.
The potential new church campus is on a major road, near a major intersection. It has a more urban feel because it sits on the dividing line between a gentrified College Hill business district & apartments to the east, and an older neighborhood like North Riverside to the west. There is no objective crime data to suggest that the potential new church campus is any more or less dangerous than our current campus.
Q: Can we put up a wrought iron fence around the parking lot?
A: A fence could be added around the perimeter of the parking area.
Q: What areas of the building would be blocked off on Sundays to make sure kids don’t get lost or hurt?
A: The initial strategy for utilizing the building each Sunday morning would be to excel in three key areas of Gospel ministry: Excellence in our corporate gathering, excellence in our Seedlings ministry, and excellence in our hospitality and fellowship. Areas of the building that don’t contribute to these goals would not be used, and we would limit or prohibit access to those areas.
As for oversight of children before and after service in our current campus, we are currently utilizing a form of “village parenting,” in which children are free to roam, and there is a silent expectation that adults will keep an eye out for all children. This campus would come with the healthy expectation that parents are setting clear boundaries for where their children can and cannot go, how they behave in the building, and also training and correcting their own children when those boundaries are ignored.
Q: Is there an emergency response / security plan?
A: Several members of our emergency response team walked through the building before the first church-wide walkthrough. They gave recommendations for managing entrances and exits, securing the Seedlings area, directing foot-traffic flow in the building, and recruiting a big enough team to serve on a 4-week rotation for Sunday mornings. The elders and staff will work alongside them to continue building out a clear emergency response plan.
Financial
Q: Would we hire out the work that needs to be done or do it ourselves?
A: In our current church campus, the work had to be finished before we moved in because we needed the entire space. In the potential new church campus, the areas we will initially use mostly need cleaning, fresh paint, a little furnishing, and small repair. We will do these ourselves. Larger or more specialized projects would be hired out.
Q: What would be the expected savings from potentially updating the boiler and chiller system to modern HVAC?
A: We have begun receiving bids on converting the building to modern HVAC, but some larger buildings actually run more efficiently on boiler and chiller systems. We’re still gathering data on what is best. Cost savings are more likely to come, not from converting the system, but by applying some building control methods to better zone and direct the air flow. The amount of savings is unknown, as it involves many variables including how mild or extreme the weather is in any given year, the cost of electricity and natural gas, and how often the building is utilized.
Q: How did we arrive at the building evaluations?
A: Determining the market value of a church property is difficult because there are very few properties with which to compare it, and quite often there are no truly comparable properties. This means there is limited sales data. Some of the key elements that churches will use when evaluating a property include location (visibility, accessibility in the city, nearness to major intersections), potential for growth and ministry development, and operational cost of the campus.
The valuation conversations began by acknowledging that our current campus excels in operational cost, but lags in location and potential for growth and ministry development. The potential new church campus, on the other hand, excels in location and potential for growth and ministry development, but lags in operational cost of the campus.
The most recent purchase price of each campus, the debt positions of each church, and cashflow considerations were also considered. Our church campus was purchased for $215,000 in 2017. The potential new church campus was purchased for $650,000 in 2014. The purchase agreement in the prospectus is that our campus would sell for $400,000 and the potential new church campus would sell for $600,000. These valuations took into account many details and developed over time.
This purchase agreement would add $200,000 in debt to our church’s bottom line. It also leaves Rock of Christ with unpaid debt, not covered by the transaction, that they will continue to assume and cover as they move forward.
Q: Should there be a monthly allotment for facilities cost/maintenance?
A: We would adjust the operational costs in our church budget to reflect the new reality. This would include recurring expenditures like utilities, as well as intermittent expenditures like maintenance.
Q: How would we prioritize where we initially spend money?
A: The proposed strategy is a combination of investment and reserving. We would invest in areas that help us with our corporate gathering, fellowship & hospitality, and Seedlings ministry. We would also reserve two years of the increased monthly expenses to give us a runway toward growing into the new church campus. As growth comes, in God’s timing and providence, we would adjust the reserving requirement for the two-year runway, which would free up additional money that could be used toward staffing, projects, etc.
Q: Do we have a budget for the emergency response / security recommendations?
A: The capital investment plan in the prospectus includes a $20,000 line item for an “initial project cash reserve.” This would be for initial projects as we move in, over and above the other listed line items.
Servants / Volunteers
Q: Can we get enough volunteers to make this work? We already sometimes struggle to get enough volunteers for a Sunday, so how will we communicate the need?
A: Regarding the Seedlings ministry, our church doesn’t really have a volunteer challenge. Instead, we have a sign-up challenge. The data clearly suggests this. For example, last month (May of 2023) there were 13 trained volunteers who didn’t serve, and that number doesn’t include women on maternity leave. The month before in April, there were 10. The month before in March, there were 8. We have plenty of volunteers. The challenge is how to encourage and train volunteers to utilize their calendar, look ahead, and sign up for a Sunday to serve, rather than waiting too long and not picking a Sunday before the month runs out.
Another consideration is that some of our volunteer challenges may actually be a symptom of our current space issues. Children’s ministries are usually organized by balancing developmental stages in children and children-to-adult ratios. In our current campus, we have a third element to balance: The size of each room. This has pulled down our ratios, which is to say, we have to separate children into smaller groupings in order to compensate for room size. If there was more room in each classroom, we could increase ratios and enable volunteers to have more space for non-cramped, creative engagement with a larger number of children.
Additionally, this year there have been 23 Sundays of Seedlings ministry. On all 23 of those Sundays, there were 40 or more people (children + volunteers) in the Seedlings area. On 18 of those Sundays, there were 45 or more. On 11 of those Sundays, there were 50 or more. These space challenges could be a factor in our volunteer sign-up challenges. Some people feel comfortable in tighter spaces, but some do not. We are so thankful that our volunteers lean into these challenges and still serve, but it is probably naive to assume that these space challenges are not at all related to volunteer challenges.
Finally, in the matter of recruiting and empowering servants / volunteers for any ministry, the key elements are always vision and urgency. Vision brings a sense of purpose: We serve the church because we are directly serving Jesus when we do, and as we serve, we are engaging in the mission of being faithful disciples of Jesus who work together to make faithful disciples of Jesus.
Urgency brings motivation: The most common reason why people don’t serve, in any organization, is this assumption: “It looks like there’s enough people here for someone else to do it.” As we see in the New Testament book of Acts, growth initiates urgency because needs become more visible, and movements or organizations maintain a healthy sense of urgency by prioritizing the mission and vision for what is on the horizon above the familiarity of the status quo.
Q: Are leaders able to take on the extra work load? Will we hire a part-time building person?
A: The initial plan would be to only use the parts of the building that we need for our corporate gathering, fellowship space, and Seedlings ministry. This property is not a short-term plan. It represents a long-term campus for the church. We would pace out projects and initially only focus on these key areas. A part-time leader with administrative capacity who can help manage the building may be the next best hire if the church moves into this property.
Q: What would the cleaning plans be for the building? Would we hire a crew or use a team of volunteers?
A: The potential new church campus budget in the prospectus includes a line item for cleaning. We would hire it out, just as we are hiring it out in our current church campus.
Timeline
Q: The timeline in the prospectus states “preparing each other’s campuses for a church campus change.” What does that mean?
A: There is currently no date set for a vote. When a date for a vote is eventually set, and in the event that the vote passes, there would be a period of time in which each church would begin preparing to operate in a new campus. This means before we would move in, we would already begin addressing some repairs, painting, emergency response measures, furnishing, Sunday procedures, etc.
This would also include spending more time in the new church campus, in general, before the official move-in date, so that our first Sunday service in the new campus would not feel like we are operating in a completely foreign space. There are currently no dates for this period of time.
Q: Will there be more opportunities to see the building and talk about it as a church?
A: Yes. You can put the following three events on your calendar:
1.) Wednesday June 28th, 6:30pm at our current campus: Church-wide discussion “town hall” gathering
2.) Sunday July 9th, 4:30pm at the potential new church campus: walkthrough + church-wide discussion “town hall” gathering beginning at 5:30pm.
3.) Tuesday July 18th, 6:00pm at the potential new church campus: walkthrough + church-wide discussion “town hall” gathering beginning at 7:00pm.
Q: In the event of the vote passing, what would stay in each campus and what would go?
A: We would take on their campus, and for the most part, everything in it. They would take on our campus, and for the most part, everything in it. Personal items, computers, books, musical instruments, tools, Seedlings supplies, and other ministry-specific items would stay with each church and move from one campus to the other.
Q: What percentage vote is required for this proposal to pass?
A: A majority vote of the members is required.